Eric W. Biederman wrote:

[ snip ]

>>
>> The packets arrive to the real device and go through the routes
>> engine. From this point, the used route is enough to know to which
>> container the traffic can go and the sockets subset assigned to the
>> container.
> 
> Note this has potentially the highest overhead of them all because
> this is the only approach in which it is mandatory to inspect the
> network packets to see which container they are in.

If the container is in the route information, when you use the route, 
you have the container destination with it. I don't see the overhead here.

> 
> My real problem with this approach besides seriously complicating
> the administration by not delegating it is that you loose enormous
> amounts of power.

I don't understand why you say administration is more complicated.
unshare -> ifconfig

1 container = 1 IP

[ snip ]

> So you have two columns that you rate these things that I disagree
> with, and you left out what the implications are for code maintenance.
> 
> 1) Network setup.
>    Past a certainly point both bind filtering and Daniel's L3 use a new
>    paradigm for managing the network code and become nearly impossible for
>    system administrators to understand.  The classic one is routing packets
>    between machines over the loopback interface by accident. Huh?

What is this new paradigm you are talking about ?

> 
> The L2. Network setup iss simply the cost of setting up a multiple
> machine network.  This is more complicated but it is well understood
> and well documented today.  Plus for the common cases it is easy to
> get a tool to automate this for you.  When you get a complicated
> network this wins hands down because the existing tools work and
> you don't have to retrain your sysadmins to understand what is
> happening.

unshare -> (guest) add mac address
            (host) add mac address
	   (guest) set ip address
            (host) set ip address
            (host) setup bridge

1 container = 2 net devices (root + guest), 2 IPs, 2 mac addresses, 1 
bridge.
100 containers = 200 net devices, 200 IPs, 200 mac addresses, 1 bridge.

> 
> 2) Runtime Overhead.
> 
> Your analysis is confused. Bind/Accept filter is much cheaper than
> doing a per packet evaluation in the route cache of which container
> it belongs to.  Among other things Bind/Accept filtering allows all
> of the global variables in the network stack to remain global and
> only touches a slow path.  So it is both very simple and very cheap.
> 
> Next in line comes L2 using real network devices, and Daniel's
> L3 thing.  Because there are multiple instances of the networking data
> structures we have an extra pointer indirection.

There is not extra networking data structure instantiation in the 
Daniel's L3.
> 
> Finally we get L2 with an extra network stack traversal, because
> we either need the full power of netfilter and traffic shaping
> gating access to what a node is doing or we simply don't have
> enough real network interfaces.  I assert that we can optimize
> the lack of network interfaces away by optimizing the drivers
> once this becomes an interesting case.
> 
> 3) Long Term Code Maintenance Overhead.
> 
> - A pure L2 implementation.  There is a big one time cost of
>   changing all of the variable accesses.  Once that transition
>   is complete things just work.  All code is shared so there
>   is no real overhead.
> 
> - Bind/Connect/Accept filtering.  There are so few places in
>   the code this is easy to maintain without sharing code with
>   everyone else.

For isolation too ? Can we build network migration on top of that ?

> 
> - Daniel's L3.  A big mass of special purpose code with peculiar
>   semantics that no one else in the network stack cares about
>   but is right in the middle of the code.

Thanks Eric for all your comments.

   -- Daniel
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