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| OpenVZ and Virtuozzo [message #2470] |
Thu, 06 April 2006 14:31  |
Jun OKAJIMA
Messages: 30
Registered: March 2006
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In my current understanding, Virtuozzo for Linux and OpenVZ is almost same,
except two points. One is admistration tools. The other is live migration.
But, OpenVZ will get live migration soon. Right?
If so, can I see OpenVZ as free virtuozzo without admin tools?
In other words, if you can use command line tools well,
OpenVZ is very same as virtuozzo, but dont have to pay fee.
This is right understand?
--- Okajima, Jun. Tokyo, Japan.
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| Re: OpenVZ and Virtuozzo [message #2480 is a reply to message #2470] |
Fri, 07 April 2006 16:27  |
dev
Messages: 1693
Registered: September 2005
Location: Moscow
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Senior Member |
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> In my current understanding, Virtuozzo for Linux and OpenVZ is almost same,
> except two points. One is admistration tools. The other is live migration.
Virtuozzo also has much more command line tools, traffic accounting,
bandwidth management, VPS migration, more complicated and efficient
template management and much much more features out of the box. So I
can't say Virtuozzo is the SAME. it is _product_. And OpenVZ is a free core.
> But, OpenVZ will get live migration soon. Right?
yep.
> If so, can I see OpenVZ as free virtuozzo without admin tools
w/o 99% of the tools, SDKs, APIs, documentation, support and so on and
so forth.
> In other words, if you can use command line tools well,
> OpenVZ is very same as virtuozzo, but dont have to pay fee.
> This is right understand?
well, in virtuozzo you have many additional command line tools, so it is
not the same from this point of view I suppose :)
Thanks,
Kirill
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| Re: OpenVZ and Virtuozzo [message #2481 is a reply to message #2480] |
Fri, 07 April 2006 16:48 |
TheWiseOne
Messages: 66
Registered: September 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
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Member |
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Kirill Korotaev wrote:
>> In my current understanding, Virtuozzo for Linux and OpenVZ is almost
>> same,
>> except two points. One is admistration tools. The other is live
>> migration.
> Virtuozzo also has much more command line tools, traffic accounting,
> bandwidth management, === VPS migration ===, more complicated and efficient
> template management and much much more features out of the box. So I
> can't say Virtuozzo is the SAME. it is _product_. And OpenVZ is a free
> core.
>
Note in-between the ==='s, and then...
>> But, OpenVZ will get live migration soon. Right?
> yep.
>
So, OpenVZ will not support migration, but it will support live
migration is what you're saying (it is what I read)? Or are you just so
used to saying Virtuozzo has migration and OpenVZ doesn't that it is
permanently etched into your brain?
Thanks,
Matt
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| Re: OpenVZ and Virtuozzo [message #2491 is a reply to message #2490] |
Fri, 07 April 2006 19:15 |
TheWiseOne
Messages: 66
Registered: September 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
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Member |
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Martin Braun wrote:
> Kirill Korotaev wrote:
>> w/o 99% of the tools, SDKs, APIs, documentation, support and so on and
>> so forth.
>
> The question is, will SWSoft stop their engagement to OVZ if
> it gets too close to the VZ feature list to avoid a loss of
> customers. The main developers are mostly SWSoft people at the
> moment. So if SWSoft stops supporting OVZ the project may be
> at risk.
>
I wonder what the OVZ project would do if some company used OVZ as the
core for their own product that provided that "99% of the tools, SDKs,
APIs, documentation, and support" and became a direct competitor to
Virtuozzo itself. Has SWSoft considered that scenario and if so what
was the conclusion? As long as all changes to the core OVZ code are
made public it does not appear to violate the OVZ license as it is
licensed under the GPL.
Thank you,
Matt Ayres
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| Re: OpenVZ and Virtuozzo [message #2502 is a reply to message #2481] |
Fri, 07 April 2006 22:50 |
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Matt Ayres wrote:
>
> Kirill Korotaev wrote:
>
>>> In my current understanding, Virtuozzo for Linux and OpenVZ is
>>> almost same,
>>> except two points. One is admistration tools. The other is live
>>> migration.
>>
>> Virtuozzo also has much more command line tools, traffic accounting,
>> bandwidth management, === VPS migration ===, more complicated and
>> efficient template management and much much more features out of the
>> box. So I can't say Virtuozzo is the SAME. it is _product_. And
>> OpenVZ is a free core.
>>
>
> Note in-between the ==='s, and then...
>
>>> But, OpenVZ will get live migration soon. Right?
>>
>> yep.
>>
>
> So, OpenVZ will not support migration, but it will support live
> migration is what you're saying (it is what I read)? Or are you just
> so used to saying Virtuozzo has migration and OpenVZ doesn't that it
> is permanently etched into your brain?
Matt,
Apparently either you got it wrong, or Kirill was a bit unclear in what
he said. The facts are: (1) yes, OpenVZ [currently] does not have live
(or any other) VPS migration, while Virtuozzo does. But (2) this will
change real soon when we will release live migration code kernel and
tools for OpenVZ later this month.
As you can see, (1) is not contradicting with (2) from the logic standpoint.
Speaking of "off-line" migration -- definitely support from kernel is
not needed for that, you just do scp or rsync [of VE private area and
config file], so it is "available" from OpenVZ in pretty much the same
way as, say, functionality of copying files over the network is
available from literally any Linux distro. Still, OpenVZ does not
include some script to do that migration, you have to run
rsync/scp/whatever manually, so, technically speaking, there are no
tools for VE migration in OpenVZ.
Speaking of live migration -- this functionality is one of the major new
features in Virtuozzo 3.0, and SWsoft now opens it up for the benefit of
the open source/free software community. This, I hope, demonstrates that
those folks at SWsoft has a stong and consistent level of commitment
towards the open source and OpenVZ in particular.
I hope you got it right this time. I also hope Kirill will be more
accurate/descriptive in the future to avoid any confusion of the kind.
Any remaining questions/concerns -- please ask and I'll be happy to
clarify/comment.
Regards,
Kir, OpenVZ project lead.
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| Re: OpenVZ and Virtuozzo [message #2503 is a reply to message #2490] |
Fri, 07 April 2006 23:23 |
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Martin Braun wrote:
> Kirill Korotaev wrote:
>
>> w/o 99% of the tools, SDKs, APIs, documentation, support and so on
>> and so forth.
>
>
> The question is, will SWSoft stop their engagement to OVZ if
> it gets too close to the VZ feature list to avoid a loss of
> customers. The main developers are mostly SWSoft people at the
> moment. So if SWSoft stops supporting OVZ the project may be
> at risk.
Martin,
That is great that you have the concerns and do care about the future of
OpenVZ project -- I do as well. Let me share some thoughts on the topic.
First, this *is* free software, means that nobody really owns controls
it, even the original creators and current maintainers of the code --
SWsoft. This is the beauty of free software, this is why we love it.
Free software nature of the code in question makes a big difference from
the (hypothetical) situation like, say, "VMware realizes that their
free-as-in-beer "Player" (or "Server") product ruins the market for them
and considering to discontinue it". That would be the problem indeed.
Second, I believe SWsoft has a strong vision and high level of
commitment towards OpenVZ. As I have noticed in my recent email, opening
up a live migration feature demonstrates their good will and overall
direction. I think they are quite happy with the fact more people use
OpenVZ, or Linux-VServer, or Xen, for that matter -- because that means
more people are seeing what "light-weight" virtualization can do for
them, in what ways in can be helpful and why it is needed at all. And
this is actually how things are working -- over time, technology itself
becomes commodotized: consider, for example, big and pricey UNIX vendors
shifted by Linux, or big and pricey RDBMS vendors shifted by open-source
solutions such as MySQL and Postgres. Still, all those big companies (or
most of them) are still alive and happy, because it's not just the
technology, but a handful of other factors involved in doing business in
IT. Licensing, support, features, high-level tools, strategic
partnerships and all that stuff.
Third, speaking of competition of OpenVZ and Virtuozzo -- OpenVZ is
actually ahead of Virtuozzo for some areas, it is not like "step-child"
or "Cinderella" of SWsoft/Virtuozzo. Here are a couple of examples.
- Fedora Core 5 templates are not there in Virtuozzo yet. Gentoo
templates are not there (and will probably never be).
- OpenVZ was the first to get that OS template management tools based on
yum (so people who used both OpenVZ and Virtuozzo says "wow! template
management is much better in OpenVZ!").
- OpenVZ offers 2.6.16-based kernels, and kernels based on FC5 and
SUSE10 kernels -- you can't get it from Virtuozzo.
You might thing it is a green and easy world as I take it. But this is
just the way I see it -- and I do care as much for the future of OpenVZ
as for my own children.
Regards,
Kir, OpenVZ project lead.
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| Re: OpenVZ and Virtuozzo [message #2781 is a reply to message #2491] |
Thu, 20 April 2006 15:35 |
dev
Messages: 1693
Registered: September 2005
Location: Moscow
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Senior Member |
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>> The question is, will SWSoft stop their engagement to OVZ if
>> it gets too close to the VZ feature list to avoid a loss of
>> customers. The main developers are mostly SWSoft people at the
>> moment. So if SWSoft stops supporting OVZ the project may be
>> at risk.
>>
>
> I wonder what the OVZ project would do if some company used OVZ as the
>> core for their own product that provided that "99% of the tools, SDKs,
> APIs, documentation, and support" and became a direct competitor to
> Virtuozzo itself. Has SWSoft considered that scenario and if so what
> was the conclusion? As long as all changes to the core OVZ code are
> made public it does not appear to violate the OVZ license as it is
> licensed under the GPL.
Matt,
Here is my personal opinion about this.
First about the scenario:
1. It should take a long time to do what you propose from a third party
company, a long time to investigate the code and a long time before they
actually ship something. During this period we will further enhance our
tools etc.
On the other hand, the competition is really good as it makes us move.
And if someone makes an open-source solution based on OpenVZ, we will bless it and help it as much as we can.
2. Maintaining the code which is not yours is a real pain.
No control of sources/interfaces, no knowledge of its functioning etc.
And if you fork, you need to do future porting to newer
kernels/platforms yourself. And implement new features!
Take a look at RHEL. There is a free CentOS build from RHEL sources,
but it is not a business.
3. From my POV, companies are unlikely to buy the product from such a reseller. It is a question of risks and for most big companies it is unacceptable. Do we observe any companies reselling Qt, RHEL, mysql? I suppose the entrance cost is just too high. IMHO.
Next, I must note, that OpenVZ project brings too much value
for SWsoft to drop the public support for it. Bug reports,
broad technology testing, feature requests helping to make it better, people awareness, knowledgebase, 3rd party tools, discussions etc.
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