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Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps [message #2322 is a reply to message #2286]

Wed, 29 March 2006 01:39

dev
Messages: 1693
Registered: September 2005
Location: Moscow

Senior Member

Nick,

>> First of all, what it does which low level virtualization can't:
>> - it allows to run 100 containers on 1GB RAM
>> (it is called containers, VE - Virtual Environments,
>> VPS - Virtual Private Servers).
>> - it has no much overhead (<1-2%), which is unavoidable with hardware
>> virtualization. For example, Xen has >20% overhead on disk I/O.
>
> Are any future hardware solutions likely to improve these problems?
Probably you are aware of VT-i/VT-x technologies and planned virtualized
MMU and I/O MMU from Intel and AMD.
These features should improve the performance somehow, but there is
still a limit for decreasing the overhead, since at least disk, network,
video and such devices should be emulated.

>> OS kernel virtualization
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Is this considered secure enough that multiple untrusted VEs are run
> on production systems?
it is secure enough. What makes it secure? In general:
- virtualization, which makes resources private
- resource control, which makes VE to be limited with its usages
In more technical details virtualization projects make user access (and
capabilities) checks stricter. Moreover, OpenVZ is using "denied by
default" approach to make sure it is secure and VE users are not allowed
something else.

Also, about 2-3 month ago we had a security review of OpenVZ project
made by Solar Designer. So, in general such virtualization approach
should be not less secure than VM-like one. VM core code is bigger and
there is enough chances for bugs there.

> What kind of users want this, who can't use alternatives like real
> VMs?
Many companies, just can't share their names. But in general no
enterprise and hosting companies need to run different OSes on the same
machine. For them it is quite natural to use N machines for Linux and M
for Windows. And since VEs are much more lightweight and easier to work
with, they like it very much.

Just for example, OpenVZ core is running more than 300,000 VEs worldwide.

Thanks,
Kirill

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[Message index]

		[RFC] Virtualization steps By: dev on Fri, 24 March 2006 17:19
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Nick Piggin on Fri, 24 March 2006 17:33
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Dave Hansen on Fri, 24 March 2006 19:25
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: ebiederm on Fri, 24 March 2006 19:53
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Bill Davidsen on Tue, 28 March 2006 04:28
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: kir on Tue, 28 March 2006 06:45
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Sam Vilain on Tue, 28 March 2006 21:59
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Kir Kolyshkin on Tue, 28 March 2006 22:24
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Sam Vilain on Tue, 28 March 2006 23:28
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Kirill Korotaev on Wed, 29 March 2006 09:13
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Sam Vilain on Wed, 29 March 2006 11:08
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Herbert Poetzl on Wed, 29 March 2006 13:45
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: dev on Wed, 29 March 2006 14:47
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Herbert Poetzl on Wed, 29 March 2006 17:29
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Sam Vilain on Wed, 29 March 2006 21:37
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: dev on Wed, 12 April 2006 08:22
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Herbert Poetzl on Thu, 13 April 2006 01:05
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Kirill Korotaev on Thu, 13 April 2006 06:45
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Herbert Poetzl on Thu, 13 April 2006 13:42
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Cedric Le Goater on Thu, 13 April 2006 21:33
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Herbert Poetzl on Thu, 13 April 2006 22:45
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: dev on Fri, 14 April 2006 07:35
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Cedric Le Goater on Fri, 14 April 2006 09:56
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Herbert Poetzl on Sat, 15 April 2006 19:29
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: kir on Thu, 13 April 2006 22:51
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Cedric Le Goater on Fri, 14 April 2006 10:08
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Herbert Poetzl on Sat, 15 April 2006 19:31
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: dev on Tue, 28 March 2006 09:00
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Bill Davidsen on Tue, 28 March 2006 14:38
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: ebiederm on Tue, 28 March 2006 15:03
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Jeff Dike on Tue, 28 March 2006 17:47
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Sam Vilain on Tue, 28 March 2006 23:07
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Bill Davidsen on Wed, 29 March 2006 20:56
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Jun OKAJIMA on Tue, 28 March 2006 20:26
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: kir on Tue, 28 March 2006 20:50
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Jun OKAJIMA on Tue, 28 March 2006 21:35
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: ebiederm on Tue, 28 March 2006 21:51
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Sam Vilain on Tue, 28 March 2006 23:17
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: dev on Tue, 28 March 2006 09:02
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Nick Piggin on Tue, 28 March 2006 09:15
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Herbert Poetzl on Tue, 28 March 2006 15:35
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: ebiederm on Tue, 28 March 2006 16:31
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Nick Piggin on Tue, 28 March 2006 15:53
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Bill Davidsen on Wed, 29 March 2006 21:37
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: ebiederm on Tue, 28 March 2006 16:15
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: dev on Wed, 29 March 2006 01:39
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Herbert Poetzl on Wed, 29 March 2006 13:47
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: TheWiseOne on Tue, 28 March 2006 15:48
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: ebiederm on Tue, 28 March 2006 16:42
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: TheWiseOne on Tue, 28 March 2006 17:04
		Re: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Kirill Korotaev on Wed, 29 March 2006 00:55
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: ebiederm on Fri, 24 March 2006 18:36
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Herbert Poetzl on Fri, 24 March 2006 21:19
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: ebiederm on Mon, 27 March 2006 18:45
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: dev on Tue, 28 March 2006 08:51
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: serue on Tue, 28 March 2006 12:53
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Sam Vilain on Tue, 28 March 2006 22:50
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Dave Hansen on Wed, 29 March 2006 20:30
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: ebiederm on Wed, 29 March 2006 20:47
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: Sam Vilain on Wed, 29 March 2006 22:44
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: dev on Thu, 30 March 2006 13:51
		Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps By: ebiederm on Tue, 28 March 2006 21:58

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